[NTISP Digest]

ntisp-digest-request@iea-software.com
Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:02:00 -0700

Message 1: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
from John Lange <radadmin@palacenet.net>

Message 2: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
from "Cowperthwaite, Eric" <eric.cowperthwaite@eds.com>

Message 3: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
from Brent Sheppard <brent@webmetrics.com>

Message 4: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
from "Cowperthwaite, Eric" <eric.cowperthwaite@eds.com>

Message 5: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
from "Waldemar Born" <WallyB@LIP.net>

Message 6: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
from "Cowperthwaite, Eric" <eric.cowperthwaite@eds.com>

..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
From: John Lange <radadmin@palacenet.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:25:38 -0500

HI

This is my day to say Bull S....

Raid "IS NOT A BACKUP". It's great if a drive fails. But again "IS NOT A
BACKUP".

[scenario 1] What happens if the telco (nice telco) delivers about 10
million volts (lightning) on one of your T1's, thru the smart jack, over to
your PM's, across your Ethernet hub, and a direct hit on your server....poof.

NO BACKUP HERE -> Start from scratch & probably have to replace your user
base also because they will leave in droves.

You can run to Best Buy (emergency only) if you have to and have a new
machine in 10 minutes, install tape drive and be back online in 3 hours. (I
know, this scenario leaves you without PM's, but it can happen)

I don't recommend using discount machines as servers, but in a pinch...

[scenario 2] Simple disaster (happened to me) My Emerald SQL DB self
destructed. No tape backup, Great Raid system, the drives never failed. I
could have been back up in 45 minutes, but NO (no tape backup) I called
franticly, everyone I knew that knew SQL, (couldn't fix it) Everyone said
"RESTORE THE TAPE FROM LAST NIGHT" {Gulp} no tape backup. We made it
through the disaster, we did copy the nightly data dump to a different
machine, but I had to redo all the security, and db stuff again. I could
have had a V8 (while restoring the TAPE)

Don't cut corners, get a good high quality "NAME BRAND" DAT (DDS) 4mm or
8mm Tape Drive. And high quality "NAME BRAND" backup software.

We use the following:
SEAGATE 24 G External DDS 4mm Dat Drive
SEAGATE Backup Exec NT Enterprise
with SQL & Netware add-on's
Verbatim 125M 24 G Tapes
Adaptec 2940 SCSI Controller (separate one for the tape, don't chain it
with your hard drives)

Now if you want "Fault Tolerance" invest in a RAID system, but "DON'T
FORGET" the tape drive.

My 2c worth, but take it from someone who knows.

JOhn :}

At 11:18 PM 7/22/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>stay away from tape???
>
>Use a Windows NT RAID configuration. Hard drives are pretty inexpensive
>these days.
>
>Eric Jensen wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a good SCSI backup device? We are trying the SyQuest
>> SyJet, but problems are starting to arise. We want to stay away from tape.
>> Please send me your recommendations of experiences.
>> Thank You,
>> Eric
>
>

John C. Lange, Sr. PALACE dot NET, INC.
microjl@palacenet.net MICRO-TECH Computers, Inc.
608.742.1601 & 6980 2800 New Pinery Road
http://www.palacenet.net/ Portage, WI 53901
Visit our online store @ http://www.microt.com/
Authorized iPSwitch WebVar @ http://www.microt.com/iPSwitch/index.html

--- __o
--- _-\<,_ Fastest Service in Town
--- (_)/ (_)

..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
From: "Cowperthwaite, Eric" <eric.cowperthwaite@eds.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:41:55 -0700

Wondering why you want to stay away from tape? Tape backups are
probably the least expensive, most reliable solution for backup
around.

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: Endre Palfi [mailto:cyborg@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 11:18 PM
To: ntisp@iea-software.com
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?

stay away from tape???

Use a Windows NT RAID configuration. Hard drives are pretty inexpensive
these days.

Eric Jensen wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a good SCSI backup device? We are trying the
SyQuest
> SyJet, but problems are starting to arise. We want to stay away from
tape.
> Please send me your recommendations of experiences.
> Thank You,
> Eric

..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?
From: Brent Sheppard <brent@webmetrics.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:44:19 -0500

I agree with this Note!

Brnet Sheppard

John Lange wrote:

> HI
>
> This is my day to say Bull S.....
>
> Raid "IS NOT A BACKUP". It's great if a drive fails. But again "IS NOT A
> BACKUP".
>
> [scenario 1] What happens if the telco (nice telco) delivers about 10
> million volts (lightning) on one of your T1's, thru the smart jack, over to
> your PM's, across your Ethernet hub, and a direct hit on your server....poof..
>
> NO BACKUP HERE -> Start from scratch & probably have to replace your user
> base also because they will leave in droves..
>
> You can run to Best Buy (emergency only) if you have to and have a new
> machine in 10 minutes, install tape drive and be back online in 3 hours. (I
> know, this scenario leaves you without PM's, but it can happen)
>
> I don't recommend using discount machines as servers, but in a pinch....
>
> [scenario 2] Simple disaster (happened to me) My Emerald SQL DB self
> destructed. No tape backup, Great Raid system, the drives never failed. I
> could have been back up in 45 minutes, but NO (no tape backup) I called
> franticly, everyone I knew that knew SQL, (couldn't fix it) Everyone said
> "RESTORE THE TAPE FROM LAST NIGHT" {Gulp} no tape backup. We made it
> through the disaster, we did copy the nightly data dump to a different
> machine, but I had to redo all the security, and db stuff again. I could
> have had a V8 (while restoring the TAPE)
>
> Don't cut corners, get a good high quality "NAME BRAND" DAT (DDS) 4mm or
> 8mm Tape Drive. And high quality "NAME BRAND" backup software..
>
> We use the following:
> SEAGATE 24 G External DDS 4mm Dat Drive
> SEAGATE Backup Exec NT Enterprise
> with SQL & Netware add-on's
> Verbatim 125M 24 G Tapes
> Adaptec 2940 SCSI Controller (separate one for the tape, don't chain it
> with your hard drives)
>
> Now if you want "Fault Tolerance" invest in a RAID system, but "DON'T
> FORGET" the tape drive..
>
> My 2c worth, but take it from someone who knows..
>
> JOhn :}
>
> At 11:18 PM 7/22/1998 -0700, you wrote:
> >stay away from tape???
> >
> >Use a Windows NT RAID configuration. Hard drives are pretty inexpensive
> >these days..
> >
> >Eric Jensen wrote:
> >>
> >> Can anyone recommend a good SCSI backup device? We are trying the SyQuest
> >> SyJet, but problems are starting to arise. We want to stay away from tape..
> >> Please send me your recommendations of experiences..
> >> Thank You,
> >> Eric
> >
> >
>
> John C. Lange, Sr. PALACE dot NET, INC..
> microjl@palacenet.net MICRO-TECH Computers, Inc..
> 608.742.1601 & 6980 2800 New Pinery Road
> http://www.palacenet.net/ Portage, WI 53901
> Visit our online store @ http://www.microt.com/
> Authorized iPSwitch WebVar @ http://www.microt.com/iPSwitch/index.html
>
> --- __o
> --- _-\<,_ Fastest Service in Town
> --- (_)/ (_)

--****************************************************************************Brent L. Sheppard  Email: Brent@Webmetrics.comSheppard Consulting, Inc.1346 Lincolnway East   www: http://www.Webmetrics.comSouth Bend, IN 46613   OR(219) 287-9938   www: http://www.Sheppard-Consulting.com****************************************************************************

..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.| Message 4 |'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'Subject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?From: "Cowperthwaite, Eric" <eric.cowperthwaite@eds.com>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:45:25 -0700

The combo of RAID 5 (which you can do via NT disk admin, w/o buyinga RAID array) and a FULL nightly tape backup is as safe as you get.

I have always used DAT (Seagate) SCSI drives and Cheyenne ArcServeand it has never failed me yet.

Eric

-----Original Message-----From: John Lange [mailto:radadmin@palacenet.net]Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 8:26 AMTo: ntisp@iea-software.comSubject: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?

HI

This is my day to say Bull S....

Raid "IS NOT A BACKUP". It's great if a drive fails. But again "IS NOTABACKUP".

[scenario 1] What happens if the telco (nice telco) delivers about 10million volts (lightning) on one of your T1's, thru the smart jack, overtoyour PM's, across your Ethernet hub, and a direct hit on yourserver....poof.

NO BACKUP HERE -> Start from scratch & probably have to replace youruserbase also because they will leave in droves.

You can run to Best Buy (emergency only) if you have to and have a newmachine in 10 minutes, install tape drive and be back online in 3 hours.(Iknow, this scenario leaves you without PM's, but it can happen)

I don't recommend using discount machines as servers, but in a pinch...

[scenario 2] Simple disaster (happened to me) My Emerald SQL DB selfdestructed. No tape backup, Great Raid system, the drives never failed.Icould have been back up in 45 minutes, but NO (no tape backup) I calledfranticly, everyone I knew that knew SQL, (couldn't fix it) Everyonesaid"RESTORE THE TAPE FROM LAST NIGHT" {Gulp} no tape backup. We made itthrough the disaster, we did copy the nightly data dump to a differentmachine, but I had to redo all the security, and db stuff again. Icouldhave had a V8 (while restoring the TAPE)

Don't cut corners, get a good high quality "NAME BRAND" DAT (DDS) 4mm or8mm Tape Drive. And high quality "NAME BRAND" backup software.

We use the following:SEAGATE 24 G External DDS 4mm Dat DriveSEAGATE Backup Exec NT Enterprise with SQL & Netware add-on'sVerbatim 125M 24 G TapesAdaptec 2940 SCSI Controller (separate one for the tape, don't chain itwith your hard drives)

Now if you want "Fault Tolerance" invest in a RAID system, but "DON'TFORGET" the tape drive.

My 2c worth, but take it from someone who knows.

JOhn :}

At 11:18 PM 7/22/1998 -0700, you wrote:>stay away from tape???>>Use a Windows NT RAID configuration. Hard drives are pretty inexpensive>these days.>>Eric Jensen wrote:>> >> Can anyone recommend a good SCSI backup device? We are trying theSyQuest>> SyJet, but problems are starting to arise. We want to stay away fromtape.>> Please send me your recommendations of experiences.>> Thank You,>> Eric>>

John C. Lange, Sr. PALACE dot NET, INC.microjl@palacenet.net MICRO-TECH Computers, Inc.608.742.1601 & 6980 2800 New Pinery Roadhttp://www.palacenet.net/ Portage, WI 53901Visit our online store @ http://www.microt.com/Authorized iPSwitch WebVar @ http://www.microt.com/iPSwitch/index.html

--- __o --- _-\<,_ Fastest Service in Town --- (_)/ (_)

..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.| Message 5 |'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'Subject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?From: "Waldemar Born" <WallyB@LIP.net>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:34:48 +0200

If you have huge data, use DLT, it works very fine. I have a HP SureStore30, not the newest and the best, but very fast and reliable.

RAID5: don't use Microsofts RAID Option comming with NT... use RAID hardwareor don't use RAID, thats my opinion.

Wally

> -----Original Message-----> From: ntisp-request@iea-software.com> [mailto:ntisp-request@iea-software.com]On Behalf Of Cowperthwaite, Eric> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 5:45 PM> To: ntisp@iea-software.com> Subject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?>>> The combo of RAID 5 (which you can do via NT disk admin, w/o buying> a RAID array) and a FULL nightly tape backup is as safe as you get.>> I have always used DAT (Seagate) SCSI drives and Cheyenne ArcServe> and it has never failed me yet.>> Eric>> -----Original Message-----> From: John Lange [mailto:radadmin@palacenet.net]> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 8:26 AM> To: ntisp@iea-software.com> Subject: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?>>> HI>> This is my day to say Bull S....>> Raid "IS NOT A BACKUP". It's great if a drive fails. But again "IS NOT> A> BACKUP".>> [scenario 1] What happens if the telco (nice telco) delivers about 10> million volts (lightning) on one of your T1's, thru the smart jack, over> to> your PM's, across your Ethernet hub, and a direct hit on your> server....poof.>> NO BACKUP HERE -> Start from scratch & probably have to replace your> user> base also because they will leave in droves.>> You can run to Best Buy (emergency only) if you have to and have a new> machine in 10 minutes, install tape drive and be back online in 3 hours.> (I> know, this scenario leaves you without PM's, but it can happen)>> I don't recommend using discount machines as servers, but in a pinch...>> [scenario 2] Simple disaster (happened to me) My Emerald SQL DB self> destructed. No tape backup, Great Raid system, the drives never failed.> I> could have been back up in 45 minutes, but NO (no tape backup) I called> franticly, everyone I knew that knew SQL, (couldn't fix it) Everyone> said> "RESTORE THE TAPE FROM LAST NIGHT" {Gulp} no tape backup. We made it> through the disaster, we did copy the nightly data dump to a different> machine, but I had to redo all the security, and db stuff again. I> could> have had a V8 (while restoring the TAPE)>> Don't cut corners, get a good high quality "NAME BRAND" DAT (DDS) 4mm or> 8mm Tape Drive. And high quality "NAME BRAND" backup software.>> We use the following:> SEAGATE 24 G External DDS 4mm Dat Drive> SEAGATE Backup Exec NT Enterprise> with SQL & Netware add-on's> Verbatim 125M 24 G Tapes> Adaptec 2940 SCSI Controller (separate one for the tape, don't chain it> with your hard drives)>> Now if you want "Fault Tolerance" invest in a RAID system, but "DON'T> FORGET" the tape drive.>> My 2c worth, but take it from someone who knows.>> JOhn :}>> At 11:18 PM 7/22/1998 -0700, you wrote:> >stay away from tape???> >> >Use a Windows NT RAID configuration. Hard drives are pretty inexpensive> >these days.> >> >Eric Jensen wrote:> >>> >> Can anyone recommend a good SCSI backup device? We are trying the> SyQuest> >> SyJet, but problems are starting to arise. We want to stay away from> tape.> >> Please send me your recommendations of experiences.> >> Thank You,> >> Eric> >> >>> John C. Lange, Sr. PALACE dot NET, INC.> microjl@palacenet.net MICRO-TECH Computers, Inc.> 608.742.1601 & 6980 2800 New Pinery Road> http://www.palacenet.net/ Portage, WI 53901> Visit our online store @ http://www.microt.com/> Authorized iPSwitch WebVar @ http://www.microt.com/iPSwitch/index.html>> --- __o> --- _-\<,_ Fastest Service in Town> --- (_)/ (_)>

..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.| Message 6 |'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'Subject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?From: "Cowperthwaite, Eric" <eric.cowperthwaite@eds.com>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:56:16 -0700

Of course, if you use Microsoft's RAID, in conjunction with parity striping in a RAID array, you will achieve RAID level 10. hmmmm.....

I have used NT 4.0's RAID capabilities, and SCSI drives for 2 yearsnow, without failure, without problem. Had one drive go bad on me anddidn't lose any data. Had I lost any data, I still had my Tape backup.

In my current position we have net servers with large amounts of dataon them, 25 to 30 GB, and we use a RAID array and NT RAID in conjunctionand a DLT drive.

On smaller servers I use DAT drives.

Eric

-----Original Message-----From: Waldemar Born [mailto:WallyB@LIP.net]Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 9:35 AMTo: ntisp@iea-software.comSubject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?

If you have huge data, use DLT, it works very fine. I have a HPSureStore30, not the newest and the best, but very fast and reliable.

RAID5: don't use Microsofts RAID Option comming with NT... use RAIDhardwareor don't use RAID, thats my opinion.

Wally

> -----Original Message-----> From: ntisp-request@iea-software.com> [mailto:ntisp-request@iea-software.com]On Behalf Of Cowperthwaite,Eric> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 5:45 PM> To: ntisp@iea-software.com> Subject: RE: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?>>> The combo of RAID 5 (which you can do via NT disk admin, w/o buying> a RAID array) and a FULL nightly tape backup is as safe as you get.>> I have always used DAT (Seagate) SCSI drives and Cheyenne ArcServe> and it has never failed me yet.>> Eric>> -----Original Message-----> From: John Lange [mailto:radadmin@palacenet.net]> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 8:26 AM> To: ntisp@iea-software.com> Subject: Re: Any recommendations on a good SCSI backup device?>>> HI>> This is my day to say Bull S....>> Raid "IS NOT A BACKUP". It's great if a drive fails. But again "ISNOT> A> BACKUP".>> [scenario 1] What happens if the telco (nice telco) delivers about 10> million volts (lightning) on one of your T1's, thru the smart jack,over> to> your PM's, across your Ethernet hub, and a direct hit on your> server....poof.>> NO BACKUP HERE -> Start from scratch & probably have to replace your> user> base also because they will leave in droves.>> You can run to Best Buy (emergency only) if you have to and have a new> machine in 10 minutes, install tape drive and be back online in 3hours.> (I> know, this scenario leaves you without PM's, but it can happen)>> I don't recommend using discount machines as servers, but in apinch...>> [scenario 2] Simple disaster (happened to me) My Emerald SQL DB self> destructed. No tape backup, Great Raid system, the drives neverfailed.> I> could have been back up in 45 minutes, but NO (no tape backup) Icalled> franticly, everyone I knew that knew SQL, (couldn't fix it) Everyone> said> "RESTORE THE TAPE FROM LAST NIGHT" {Gulp} no tape backup. We made it> through the disaster, we did copy the nightly data dump to a different> machine, but I had to redo all the security, and db stuff again. I> could> have had a V8 (while restoring the TAPE)>> Don't cut corners, get a good high quality "NAME BRAND" DAT (DDS) 4mmor> 8mm Tape Drive. And high quality "NAME BRAND" backup software.>> We use the following:> SEAGATE 24 G External DDS 4mm Dat Drive> SEAGATE Backup Exec NT Enterprise> with SQL & Netware add-on's> Verbatim 125M 24 G Tapes> Adaptec 2940 SCSI Controller (separate one for the tape, don't chainit> with your hard drives)>> Now if you want "Fault Tolerance" invest in a RAID system, but "DON'T> FORGET" the tape drive.>> My 2c worth, but take it from someone who knows.>> JOhn :}>> At 11:18 PM 7/22/1998 -0700, you wrote:> >stay away from tape???> >> >Use a Windows NT RAID configuration. Hard drives are prettyinexpensive> >these days.> >> >Eric Jensen wrote:> >>> >> Can anyone recommend a good SCSI backup device? We are trying the> SyQuest> >> SyJet, but problems are starting to arise. We want to stay awayfrom> tape.> >> Please send me your recommendations of experiences.> >> Thank You,> >> Eric> >> >>> John C. Lange, Sr. PALACE dot NET, INC.> microjl@palacenet.net MICRO-TECH Computers, Inc.> 608.742.1601 & 6980 2800 New Pinery Road> http://www.palacenet.net/ Portage, WI 53901> Visit our online store @ http://www.microt.com/> Authorized iPSwitch WebVar @ http://www.microt.com/iPSwitch/index.html>> --- __o> --- _-\<,_ Fastest Service in Town> --- (_)/ (_)>